Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

... that I'm fairly certain will degrade my level of care while increasing my costs. My costs will go up either way, so I might as well keep my care at a higher level.

From a purely individual level, the biggest worry most people in our position have is a catostrophic illness, something like a brain tumor, that goes beyond lifetime limits and bankrupts us. Or losing our coverage at a point when we have a preexisting condition. The bill takes care of those two things. The rest of the costs are marginal.

You may not worry about those things, but you should.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

What does death by a thousand cuts mean for healthcare?

The individual mandate doesn't require funding - it produces revenue. What are they going to cut? They can fail to fund the insurance exchanges, but that won't get rid of the mandate. They can not fund some of the incentive payments to physicians, but that's not going to eliminate the no-pre-existing conditions rules.

If they do nothing, the core of the program goes forward. If they say we're not going to fund those limited portions of the program that provide funding, they're going to creative a lovely mess where a lot of their own constituents, especially insurance companies, get royally screwed.

If they don't enact legislation, Democrats win from a policy perspective. Healthcare reform is done. Republicans may say, ok, you get the program, but it'll cost the Democrats Washington, and that may be the case, but then healthcare reform survives and the Dems still be back. We'll get a few years of republicans borrowing and spending, bashing gays and immigrants, and starting wars, and then the Dems will come back in and clean it up again, hopefully before we're in too deep to the Chinese and facing foreclosure.

You cut funding to enforce the mandate. You hold up all changes to the IRS code empowering agents to enforce it. There are endless ways to gum up those gears.

They'll put the insurance companies into a crisis and blame on Democrats. "If we'd never had this dumb plan, none of this would have happened!" They know the public will never dig deep enough to figure out how they sabotaged it.

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

No, it's because the countries have real policy differences because they have different interests.

So when the major Western powers disagree with a DEM administration, it is due to real policy differences, but when it's a GOP administration, it's because we are out of touch with the world, stupid, cavalier, alienating our allies, etc.

Got it.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

when do the mandates kick in? once they do kick in the R's will cut the ribbon to the white House, that's what they'll cut. no offense. unless obama runs on the notion that he was against health care and will vote to reverse it.

sounds crazy but it worked for Gary Peters in the next district over.

If that's alll they want to cut, rather than the actual reforms themselves, I understand their strategy.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

So when the major Western powers disagree with a DEM administration, it is due to real policy differences, but when it's a GOP administration, it's because we are out of touch with the world, stupid, cavalier, alienating our allies, etc.

Got it.

if you cared about people you'd suggest Ty go see a doctor and get a brain scan before the reforms kick in. although, i suppose whatever is wrong is pre-existing?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

If that's alll they want to cut, rather than the actual reforms themselves, I understand their strategy.

we can't cut mandates because that is the basis of the constitutional challenge, but the mandates are the first part that hurt enough people that you will be done as a party (carving out SF and AA and boston)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Nevermind that the only support for that belief is the closely-held faith that government is inherently evil.

Exhibit 1.

No, I base this on the fact that numerous friends and family members are doctors and are already burned out from having to see too many patients. Also, the fact that we have a doctor shortage. Put 25 million new insured on HC plans and I see the lines getting longer than those outside 7Eleven when Powerball's jackpot goes over $100 million.

I don't give a fuck what pile of horseshit they fed the CBO, you cannot put 25 million people who can't afford HC into the system and not have costs and wait times explode, and quality drop. Inevitably, you and I wind up having to pay concierge docs (I did this once already and I liked it, but it's expensive and I didn't much like that part of it). I want to push that expense off as long as I can.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

No, I base this on the fact that numerous friends and family members are doctors and are already burned out from having to see too many patients. Also, the fact that we have a doctor shortage. Put 25 million new insured on HC plans and I see the lines getting longer than those outside 7Eleven when Powerball's jackpot goes over $100 million.

I don't give a fuck what pile of horseshit they fed the CBO, you cannot put 25 million people who can't afford HC into the system and not have costs and wait times explode, and quality drop. Inevitably, you and I wind up having to pay concierge docs (I did this once already and I liked it, but it's expensive and I didn't much like that part of it). I want to push that expense off as long as I can.

Yes, we've heard it before. The sky is falling because a relatively small group of people who dont' consume much heathcare now are going to be forced to pay for health care and also going to suddenly consume vastly more than they do now.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

I think they will keep some aspects of the plan, such as the pre-existing conditions stuff.

Can't keep pre-existing conditions without the mandate, which is the reason that the mandate is there in the first place. Ask Mitt Romney, he tried too.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Yes, we've heard it before. The sky is falling because a relatively small group of people who dont' consume much heathcare now are going to be forced to pay for health care and also going to suddenly consume vastly more than they do now.

Indeed... Because people who haven't seen docs won't have any undiagnosed issues. And as we've seen with health care so far, nothing discourages use like having a third party pay. Particularly when that third party is the govt.

I could send you some of the calls my collectors have taped from pensioners screaming and swearing about how the "goddamn insurer" should have covered everything from a co-pay to a minor procedure. In many instances, these fucking people sign waivers saying they realize the procedure won't be covered by insurance, fuck the doctor by not paying and then have the nerve to bitch when the medical practice tries to collect the debt.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And as we've seen with health care so far, nothing discourages use like having a third party pay. Particularly when that third party is the govt.

Perhaps RT can enlighten us, but I do not think this third-party government paying thing is in there.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Adder

Perhaps RT can enlighten us, but I do not think this third-party government paying thing is in there.

So, how is it that the not-quite-poor-enough-for-Medicaid are able to pay for private medical insurance? Is it the tooth fairy?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

Perhaps RT can enlighten us, but I do not think this third-party government paying thing is in there.

wait. so it's all free?

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Can't keep pre-existing conditions without the mandate, which is the reason that the mandate is there in the first place. Ask Mitt Romney, he tried too.

Why not?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Perhaps RT can enlighten us, but I do not think this third-party government paying thing is in there.

Where does the source of money for the subsidized care for those who can't afford it come from? Stated differently, who is the mandate paid to? And who will the people consuming this subsidized care think is footing the bill?