Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski
I was an elected union rep for a major gov union and handled grievances and appeals pretty much on my own as a law student, but only for 3 years or so, so I'm sure several of you have much greater knowledge than I.
I did participate in several votes where we elected to chase appeals and spend dues money that seemed ill-advised- I would characterize the reason for the green light as pure ego of the union officers, and also wanting to protect themselves and their cushy positions.
the worst was a situation where we won an arbitration on several clauses for our contract. the Gov appealed. the contract said the two sides would print the contract for the employees. The gov said if we print the appealled clauses they must be underlined. We said no, then printed it, along with the officlal dept seal on the cover, then we sued the gov for 50% of the cost of printing. the gov sued us for using its seal w/o permission.
about that time I visited the Japanese counterpart to my gov office. their employee union operated a grocery store in the basement. oranges cost $6 at a normal store but you could get them for $2 at the union co-op.
which model helped its employees more?
I know you'll not answer my question, so I will answer yours:
please look at the actions of the DC teachers' union ove rthe last five years and let me know it they are closer to the US model or the Japanese. once you understand that perhaps we can talk about your original question.
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I'm not interesting in having a pissing context about who knows more about unions. (I don't rely think you are, either, or you and Penske would be going at it.) Suffice it to say my relevant experience > 0.
I will answer your question: Unless the Japanese union found some way to acquire and distribute oranges more efficiently than Japanese grocery stores, which seems possible (since the Japanese retail sector is not a model of efficiency) but unlikely, it's hard to see from what you've said what the Japanese union accomplished. Likewise, it's hard to see (from what you've said) what your union accomplished. However, I would suspect that the most important activities of the respective unions were in collective bargaining, and you haven't said anything about what either accomplished there, nor anything about the baseline scenario that you are implicitly comparing things to -- a world without unions? with Japanese-style unions? better unions?. So I don't know which model helped employees more. If you share who won the suits and whether the Japanese union members liked oranges, we would be two small steps closer to the truth.
So there's an answer to your question. But -- of course -- you said you would answer mine, and then you didn't. You ducked the question again. One begins to suspect that when you waded into the conversation and told me that I didn't know anything about it, you were engaged in what psychiatrists call projection. Even so, I will call your bluff again. Over the past five years, I am unaware of the DC teachers union buying oranges in bulk and then selling them to union members below cost, nor am I aware of their having done this with any other citrus, fruit, foodstuff, good, or service. But they have acted adversarially towards their counterparties in negotiations.
Now, your best answer to my repeated question, please. Show how smart and worldly you are.
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