My God, you are an idiot.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Uh, we did. More like 19 years ago now, but the total US deployment in Europe is way down.

Okay. Well. Good then. More please.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Adder

Okay. Well. Good then. More please.

Agreed.

[Gattigap]

Originally Posted by ironweed

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/10/ny...l?ref=politics

Apparently Weiner is an arrogant, preening asshole and nobody likes him. I have to say I never saw that one coming.

Sure, Wiener's out of luck, but it's a good thing Newt knows who his friends are in troubled times like these. Sure, all the pussy politicians run for the hills in times of trouble, but you know who has his finger on the pulse of America, who will stand by Newt through thick and thin? Zell Miller, that's who!

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Gattigap

Sure, Wiener's out of luck, but it's a good thing Newt knows who his friends are in troubled times like these. Sure, all the pussy politicians run for the hills in times of trouble, but you know who has his finger on the pulse of America, who will stand by Newt through thick and thin? Zell Miller, that's who!

It's just that no one has the vision to see what Newt is doing. It's 4 years *to the day* since McCain had something similar happen and look how that worked out for him!

Newt should at least be able to parlay this into a new, younger, wife.

Originally Posted by Gattigap

Sure, Wiener's out of luck, but it's a good thing Newt knows who his friends are in troubled times like these. Sure, all the pussy politicians run for the hills in times of trouble, but you know who has his finger on the pulse of America, who will stand by Newt through thick and thin? Zell Miller, that's who!

Newt clearly inspires fanatical devotion among devoted fanatics. Zell Miller is his energized base.

What is it about people that they have to come out with stuff like "The [Repub/Dem] Party has moved too far to the [left/right] and will never win another election again!" after every election, e.g., 2008 op-eds everywhere about how the Republican party was finished and would have to split into Tories and Whigs or whatever.

But of course they came back, because it's like a two-party dictatorship, man. They ain't never gonna go away, you only get to pick your flavor every four years like Coke v. Pepsi, dig?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ironweed

Newt clearly inspires fanatical devotion among devoted fanatics. Zell Miller is his energized base.

What is it about people that they have to come out with stuff like "The [Repub/Dem] Party has moved too far to the [left/right] and will never win another election again!" after every election, e.g., 2008 op-eds everywhere about how the Republican party was finished and would have to split into Tories and Whigs or whatever.

But of course they came back, because it's like a two-party dictatorship, man. They ain't never gonna go away, you only get to pick your flavor every four years like Coke v. Pepsi, dig?

This election cycle is going to put significant strain on the divisions within the GOP. The party ain't going anywhere, but it's looking like it's time to decide if it's the party of social conservative whackos (Palin, Bachmann, Santorum) or weirdo libertarian economic extremists (Paul, Ryan) or whether Romney (or I guess Pawlenty) can straddle the two in a successful coalition.

But look who's not in play at all: serious fiscal conservatives.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Adder

But look who's not in play at all: serious fiscal conservatives.

Who would that be? Name someone who has at least run for a nomination to a statewide or national office as an R and is at least "serious" about fiscal conservatism.

I'll spot the list Coburn, tho I don't totally agree.

Christie is out, due to his associations with 'weed.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Who would that be? Name someone who has at least run for a nomination to a statewide or national office as an R and is at least "serious" about fiscal conservatism.

I'll spot the list Coburn, tho I don't totally agree.

Christie is out, due to his associations with 'weed.

Gov. Snyder of Michigan.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Who would that be? Name someone who has at least run for a nomination to a statewide or national office as an R and is at least "serious" about fiscal conservatism.

Right. That was my point.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Adder

Right. That was my point.

Okay, so you know who else isn't in play for the Republican nomination?

Martians. Zombie Reagans. American Margaret Thatchers. Chupacabras

Hank has a decent suggestion, but at this point he (a) has less political experience than Palin, and (b) has to live thru his fiscal policy for at least a year without pulling a Christie. So maybe next cycle, if the budget is still a primary issue.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Okay, so you know who else isn't in play for the Republican nomination?

Martians. Zombie Reagans. American Margaret Thatchers. Chupacabras

Unlike those things, there are R voters who are, or at least profess to be, actual fiscal conservatives. You know, people like, say, Club, Hank and Sebby.

Thus my point was the current R candidates seem not to represent those "real" voters as one illustration of the strain within the party.

Hank has a decent suggestion, but at this point he (a) has less political experience than Palin, and (b) has to live thru his fiscal policy for at least a year without pulling a Christie. So maybe next cycle, if the budget is still a primary issue.

I don't know much about Snyder. If Christie and Daniels were in the race I might have to rethink my point.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Who would that be? Name someone who has at least run for a nomination to a statewide or national office as an R and is at least "serious" about fiscal conservatism.

I'll spot the list Coburn, tho I don't totally agree.

Christie is out, due to his associations with 'weed.

Jon Huntsman?

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Jon Huntsman?

Possible. But he said very nice things about the Ryan plan, so he has to step up with something real to separate from that.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Adder

Unlike those things, there are R voters who are, or at least profess to be, actual fiscal conservatives. You know, people like, say, Club, Hank and Sebby.

Thus my point was the current R candidates seem not to represent those "real" voters as one illustration of the strain within the party.

Voters, yes. Candidates, no. Just like there is a subset of D voters that support, or at least profess to support, each crazy DU idea that various posters trot out to scare small children, but no D candidate (apart from Kucinuch) who represents those real voters. The D voters turn to Nader or whoever when they feel disenfranchised, the Rs (appear to) vote on their secondary issues or the least worst alternative.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Voters, yes. Candidates, no.

Right. That was my point.

Just like there is a subset of D voters that support, or at least profess to support, each crazy DU idea that various posters trot out to scare small children, but no D candidate (apart from Kucinuch) who represents those real voters. The D voters turn to Nader or whoever when they feel disenfranchised, the Rs (appear to) vote on their secondary issues or the least worst alternative

I don't think those groups are analogous as they are at the left edge of the D voter base.

What I was implying is that R voters in the middle should be quite unhappy with what's happening in that party. The R party is in the midst of the equivalent of a struggle for control between Bernie Sanders-types and Nader-types. Or something like that.

It's part of my ongoing quixotic crusade to convince Club that he's secretly a Clinton Democrat.