My God, you are an idiot.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

S&P based its down grade,

The S&P downgrade will be a universal joke by Wednesday, at least as to the solvency of the U.S. government, which will find itself borrowing at even lower rates this week.

It's everyone else who stands to lose.

The Rs leverage the debt ceiling raise to cuts.

You are still hanging on that line? No they didn't. They leveraged it to an attempt at political advantage. They steadfastly said no to Obama's offer to address our long term issues.

Maybe both are at fault, but one side wanted to talk about our real issues, and the other said, "oh, fuck, wait, no, we can't do that because you might get reelected."

The Ds are guilty of a no-negotiation stance on entitlements.

I say this in all seriousness, and not as a mere slight: you need a broader base of news sources. This is bullshit, and I can't believe you are saying it. It. Is. Just. Factually. Wrong. Wrong I tell you.

Monday will be interesting. I expect a substantial drop in the equity markets, even though most I've heard are saying that the AA rating is a joke and UST are still the safest investment in the world. I expect bond prices to stay stable.

Equities will drops significantly. The AAA is a "joke" as to prices for U.S. government debt, which will not remain stable, but rise further (not that there is much room to go up). The flight to quality will continue, and U.S. debt is still the highest quality available.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

On another note, I took particular pleasure in hearing that Treasury found a $2B error in the S&P model. I can just picture some former Goldman banker finding the error and then Treasury hammering S&P with it on the flurry of expletive ridden conference calls that surely took place before the announcement.

Let's just preserve this. Tomorrow you will say it wasn't an error but rather an honest disagreement over the right baseline.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

The Rs are guilty of a no-negotiation stance on taxes. The Ds are guilty of a no-negotiation stance on entitlements.

The second sentence is false. Obama put entitlements on the table and Boehner wouldn't go there. There have already been GOP attacks on Dems for this.

Also, Democrats included Medicare cuts as part of HCR and for their efforts got attacked for it in the 2010 elections.

The false equivalence between the two parties is really tired. It serves to excuse bad behavior by Republicans.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

Both parties are at fault.

Do you have any verifiable support for this stupid opinion?

The Ds have not passed a budget for almost 3 years.

The 2010 budget was passed in Spring, 2009, before the fiscal year began, by the Democratic house and senate. Here's a news report on it. The 2011 Budget was proposed by Obama in Feburary, 2011, but not passed until December, 2011, three months into the fiscal year. Here's the law.

Obama and a D congress pass an extension to the Bush tax cuts. They also refused to increase the debt the limit for political reasons. This is December 2010.

By "for political reasons", you mean, "because the Rs would have gone apoplectic and Obama was trying to work with them"? I somehow don't think this is the gridlock that S&P is complaining about.

In winter, 2011, Obama proposes a budget that would have substantially INCREASED the deficit. He was laughed at by both parties (99-0 in the senate).

Obama has not proposed a budget since. The Senate has not passed a budget. The House has passed a budget, although one that is not passable by the Senate.

You may want to glance at the timing of all of this. The house (the "Ryan") and Obama budgets were voted on near simultaneously, and voted down by the Senate near simultaneously. Obama's budget was scored at decreasing the deficit by 1.1 Trillion; the Ryan budget was only slightly higher, despite its replacement of Medicare by a capped voucher plan, because it also included tax cuts.

Since both budgets were voted down by the Senate, Obama presented a plan with a $4 Trillion deficit reduction, while Boehner and Ryan have submitted nothing. Note that Obama's plan included a cap on Medicare/Medicaid expenses and reforms to social security.

We have not seen anything from the Rs subsequent on the budget. Yet, hearings are supposed to begin in September.

The Rs leverage the debt ceiling raise to cuts. The Ds reluctantly give in on a compromise deal. The result, like most compromises in Washington, doesn't go far enough.

Damn. Adder's right, you need more news sources.

The Rs are guilty of a no-negotiation stance on taxes. The Ds are guilty of a no-negotiation stance on entitlements. Result is a stalemate.

You mean like proposing a budget plan with a cap on M/M and reofrms to Social Security being guilty of no-negotiation? Interesting concept of no negotiation. We don't need to rehash to $4T grand deal Boehner walked away from and its entitled reform either.

Monday will be interesting. I expect a substantial drop in the equity markets, even though most I've heard are saying that the AA rating is a joke and UST are still the safest investment in the world. I expect bond prices to stay stable.

On another note, I took particular pleasure in hearing that Treasury found a $2B error in the S&P model. I can just picture some former Goldman banker finding the error and then Treasury hammering S&P with it on the flurry of expletive ridden conference calls that surely took place before the announcement.

Don't forget the fall in the value of the dollar we're about to see. Our new place in the world, thank you Republicans.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The second sentence is false. Obama put entitlements on the table and Boehner wouldn't go there. There have already been GOP attacks on Dems for this.

Also, Democrats included Medicare cuts as part of HCR and for their efforts got attacked for it in the 2010 elections.

The false equivalence between the two parties is really tired. It serves to excuse bad behavior by Republicans.

2

The first step is for them to admit they have a problem.

It's funny, too, after all the attack ads run against Dems in the last election for cutting Medicare that the Rs are now complaining that the Dems aren't cutting Medicare.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Also, Democrats included Medicare cuts as part of HCR and for their efforts got attacked for it in the 2010 elections.

Translation: Say what you will about the Nazis, they made sure not to serve pork to the Auschwitz inmates.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

thanks for clearing this up. It's always interesting/refreshing when one of the few of us with actually knowledge clears up nonsense in our area of expertise posted by one of the no-nothings. e.g. when I had to explain the difference between FSAs and HSAs. If we can get slave back here to moderate the PB I'm hoping to get a proposal approved that provides a sort of "polling test" that must be passed before letting someone post here. that will hopefully eliminate all the posts about stuff that is far above most of the heads here.

So you don't understand the basic facts, either? Missed that budget passing last December? I could swear you complained about the Dems passing it before the Rs could come in and screw up the works.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Don't forget the fall in the value of the dollar we're about to see.

I'm neither sure that will happen nor that it would be bad.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

I'm neither sure that will happen nor that it would be bad.

Well, so far it looks like the Euro is falling faster. Both down against the Yen, Yuan and Swiss Franc.

Maybe Europe can save us by collapsing faster?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, so far it looks like the Euro is falling faster. Both down against the Yen, Yuan and Swiss Franc.

Maybe Europe can save us by collapsing faster?

Again, I'm not sure what's bad about a weaker dollar. Sounds like more competitive exports and domestic products to me.

Although I'm going on a European vacation (assuming I can get these deals done) soon, so maybe it's bad for me personally. Damn Rs are always trying to screw me.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Translation: Say what you will about the Nazis, they made sure not to serve pork to the Auschwitz inmates.

Wow. I thought you were incapable of new lows.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Wow. I thought you were incapable of new lows.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, so far it looks like the Euro is falling faster. Both down against the Yen, Yuan and Swiss Franc.

Maybe Europe can save us by collapsing faster?

Looking now, the USD is down about 1% against the Yen, down very slightly (like less than 1 tenth of a percent) against the Yuan and Hong Kong Dollar, and up very slightly against the Euro, Pound, and Canadian and Australian dollars.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

Looking now, the USD is down about 1% against the Yen, down very slightly (like less than 1 tenth of a percent) against the Yuan and Hong Kong Dollar, and up very slightly against the Euro, Pound, and Canadian and Australian dollars.

Yes, so far biggest casualty seems to be big financials. Time to keep an eye on the debt markets, as we start hitting corporate downgrades.

Wall Street's disdaid for S&P appears pretty strong.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Translation: Say what you will about the Nazis, they made sure not to serve pork to the Auschwitz inmates.