My God, you are an idiot.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by SlaveNoMore

Mubarak was a royal [?] prick, but he was our prick, and he kept the Muslim Brotherhood in check. Your guy threw him under the bus, and the crazies are now taking over the asylum. And Israel is now in immediate danger as a result.

Junior DB in Syria is probably far worse than Mubarak, yet we do nothing there. Oh, and he's a Hamas (and Iran, if we're counting) puppet.

Hmm. Makes you think.

Huh? We are doing exactly what we did in egyt in Syria.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

First, color of sky? Second, worse? Really? The potential for armed conflict between the militariea of two of our alleys on the region pales in comparison to low grade violence in an unstable country in an historical transition?

I say it all the time, but you have to lay off the fox news. It really fucks with perspective.

"low grade violence?" Are you fucking nuts, or ignorant? When a government lets an embassy be ransacked it's a statement from that government. When the Iranian "low grade violence" took over the US embassy, did you think that wasn't much?

Israel flew military jets in to evacuate it's embassy staff. If we give 1 dollar to Egypt we are ignorant.

Turkey is not behaving as an ally of the US. It is off the reservation in protecting Hamas. We should tell it if one military boat gets within 100 miles of the coast it will not see dollar 1 for 2 years. The entire construct of letting Israel alone from Turkey and Egypt is based upon US dollars. all the people in those countries would gladly like to see Israel die. It is entirely on us to keep the people we bought behaving, whatever blogs Ty reads nonwithstanding.

What all of you can't seem to get your brain around is that Israel has no right to exist in the most of those governments' plans. and its spinning has infected their peoples. We can't ignore that. To pretend there is a possible actual peace anytime soon would be equivalent to negotiating with the Taliban after 9/11 to understand it's grievances.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

"low grade violence?" Are you fucking nuts, or ignorant? When a government lets an embassy be ransacked it's a statement that government. .

First, what government? There isn't really one. That's potentially really bad. But what is it you think will happen should the armed forces of turkey grt into shooting hostilities with the armed forces of israel? Much worse on any measure.

Also, yeah turkey isn't behaving as an ally. Another reason that isuchbworse than instability in a place that's unstable at the moment.

So yeah, again, your perspective is whack.

Oh, and when you say "they all want israel to die" that's pretty damn antisemetic.

[Adder]

I suppose in your world Carter should have just told those Iranians we boightto behave and all would have been fine. Clearly he had the same magic wand that Obama has to totally control world events.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

I suppose in your world Carter should have just told those Iranians we boightto behave and all would have been fine. Clearly he had the same magic wand that Obama has to totally control world events.

well we didn't give Iran more money, and even Carter didn't support the Iranians once he knew it was against us.

My point was trying to make you understand that the Egyptian government letting the embassy be taken is a horrible sign, far worse than the Turkish government trying to appease its people by fake guarding a few boats. Letting the Israel embassy go is a very real sign that the bet on friendly democracies popping up is not looking good.

Obama needs to step up now to make clear Israel is our prime ally. He should also dismiss Hilllary. fall guy? sure, but it would send a signal.

p.s. today's news from Israel

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

First, what government? There isn't really one. That's potentially really bad. But what is it you think will happen should the armed forces of turkey grt into shooting hostilities with the armed forces of israel? Much worse on any measure.

lots of Turkish soldiers will die?

Also, yeah turkey isn't behaving as an ally. Another reason that isuchbworse than instability in a place that's unstable at the moment.

So yeah, again, your perspective is whack.

right. so obama now needs to take the pressure he has been applying on Israel and tell the Turks doing what it is doing is wrong, unacceptable, and whatever other threats he and Hil have been throwing at Israel.

(edit- I don't see that we even give Turkey $$. Okay, let's let Israel into NATO)


as to your comment about anti-semetism in the mid-east, it negates any weight that can be given to your fuzzy thoughts.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't usually respond to the same post twice, but, I forget, is this the test we used WRT the last administration?

Are you accusing me of hypocrisy or proclaiming your own?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Are you accusing me of hypocrisy or proclaiming your own?

I freely admit I'm full of shit, so I can't be a hypocrite.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

I think they will readily back the payroll tax cuts, as long as there are concurrent cuts in spending.

The employer side payroll tax cut won't do shit, but I'm thrilled to enjoy its fruit. Hands the old lady a nice chunk of walking around money.

I may vote for him if he promises to run that through 2015.

I may vote for him anyway. If we elect Romney, we may not have all this volatility.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

lots of Turkish soldiers will die?



right. so obama now needs to take the pressure he has been applying on Israel and tell the Turks doing what it is doing is wrong, unacceptable, and whatever other threats he and Hil have been throwing at Israel.

(edit- I don't see that we even give Turkey $$. Okay, let's let Israel into NATO)


as to your comment about anti-semetism in the mid-east, it negates any weight that can be given to your fuzzy thoughts.

Sem-i-tism. You're driving me nuts with that misspelling.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I didn't call Obama anti-semetic. I said at least one of he and Hil are at least one of "weak" and anti-semetic.

So if I say that you are either occasionally intoxicated or sexually abusing sheep, I think you would fairly take umbrage at the ovine thing.

Perhaps you have a cleaner explanation for why they left Israel hanging. Tell us the facts instead of attacking me.

They "left Israel hanging"? WTF?

and the indignation is rich, considering you have refused to delete troll posts here accusing some of us of being anti-semetic or racist or homophobic. you want to have the moral ground to insist socks don't slur others here, then you should delete 80% of GGG's posts.

I didn't delete you. Count your lucky stars.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ironweed

I think that for Less "advocating payroll tax cuts because Republicans won't pass anything else" somehow means "totally loving the Laffer Curve and wanting to have like a thousand of its babies." That being said, I do not expect intellectual consistency or rigor from the Democratic party on economic theories. For that, I can read Krugman and get depressed.

Indeed. "We need to spend until the thing rights itself" is brilliant policy.

I get it. Austerity is illogical. I understand and can run with the argument for a while.

But then it gets absurd. The market sees through it. Businesses and the market become dependent upon, and learn how to predict, and goose, government intervention.

At a certain point, you have to start weaning the economy from interventions. All Krugman screams is "More, more, more." Suppose we hand the economy what he suggests. Perhaps there's an argument to be made that a monster stimulus from the start, with no set end date, or limit, would work because the actors in the system would never know when, if ever, it would end. Maybe that would work. But that's politically, and practically, impossible. All we can do is offer a one new fix after another. Stimulus, QEs, twist, refi programs. Everyone sees through, and anticipates the next govt move. The markets demand it. It becomes a pusher/junkie scenario, which undoes all the intent of the underlying policy prescription.

So fuck Krugman. His advice is for a day long past. It's as bad as severe austerity. The answer is what the answer will be: Muddle through. React, to keep a status quo that avoids widespread civil unrest, and let the debt overhang unwind as it will.

It won't be a terrible shit sandwich. When all falls, the guy on top at the outset of collapse holds that position. And you can forget all the shmucks claiming the BRICs would decouple. That's been disproven. We all fall together... And that's good for us.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Gattigap

It is funny, but I think it's more a function of this being the only sheet music on the stand at the moment. "Oh, yeah, fuckers? Pass this!" is more fun, and useful in painting the other side as obstructionist, than is engaging in dry arguments over the flaws of supply side economics.

If we're talking disingenuous policies, and absurdities, Obama's 4% refi program's expansion of HARP to include LTVs in excess of 175% takes the cake.

If you're that far underwater, why would you ever refi? You need a principal cut. The program entirely misses the most distressed sector of borrower.

The better plan would be a GSE-like "bad bank" used to soak up all the shit in FL, AZ, MI, Inland CA, and any loan in excess of 175% LTV. And once that's done, remove all those properties from all indexes and give borrowers lease-to-own contracts, or principal write downs.

If you pull the seriously rotten apples out of the data, housing gets better quickly. At least on paper. Sure, it's not a permanent fix, but it's a good start.

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The better plan would be a GSE-like "bad bank" used to soak up all the shit in FL, AZ, MI, Inland CA, and any loan in excess of 175% LTV. And once that's done, remove all those properties from all indexes and give borrowers lease-to-own contracts, or principal write downs.

If you pull the seriously rotten apples out of the data, housing gets better quickly. At least on paper. Sure, it's not a permanent fix, but it's a good start.

The problem is that the banks won't sell the loans. There are plenty of buyers out there. More new ventures for this purposes have sprung up since 2008 than you can fathom. It was the new, new thing in 2008/2009. Everyone wanted to buy big portfolios. Unfortunately, due to the price delocation between buyers and sellers, no where near enough paper moved.

We are doomed to ride this out over time. No quick fix.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by SlaveNoMore

Mubarak was a royal [?] prick, but he was our prick, and he kept the Muslim Brotherhood in check. Your guy threw him under the bus, and the crazies are now taking over the asylum. And Israel is now in immediate danger as a result.

Junior DB in Syria is probably far worse than Mubarak, yet we do nothing there. Oh, and he's a Hamas (and Iran, if we're counting) puppet.

Hmm. Makes you think.

Where were you when Hank and Club were saying that the Arab revolutions were a result of W's fine work in Iraq?