My God, you are an idiot.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

What's even more "Wow" is that this story is getting next to zero traction in the general media. It's astonishing.

Bill Hicks was right in the early Nineties when he said (paraphrased), "Nothing to see here, America... Everything's okay. Go back to watching American Gladiators. We've got everything under control here..."

I'd like to think Joe Sixpack doesn't get incensed by this stuff because he's either given up, or doesn't think there's any way to change it. But I don't think that's true. I think he's so fucking dumb that an article discussing the Treasury Secretary nakedly assisting in insider trading is simply not interesting, or somehow "beyond him."

We deserve to lose our freedom. And the cattle who aren't disgusted by this shit deserve to be enslaved in debt, and have their benefits eviscerated. In a country where 20% of the citizens had adequate curiosity about the world beyond their couch, this story would be the headline in every newspaper. "Henry Paulson: Agnew by Different Means?"

The most surprising thing I saw in there was that he broke no laws; come on guys, we're more creative than that. Surely we can come up with something to charge him with?

The OWS people are idiots for not replacing all their signs with this story yesterday and focusing everything on a call for his head. This is what people mean when they complain about their lack of organization.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Is the Fed the most functional branch of government today?

Yes, and it's far from as functional as it should be.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The most surprising thing I saw in there was that he broke no laws; come on guys, we're more creative than that. Surely we can come up with something to charge him with?

The OWS people are idiots for not replacing all their signs with this story yesterday and focusing everything on a call for his head. This is what people mean when they complain about their lack of organization.

Perhaps they were too busy getting arrested for peaceful protest in a public park (LA edition).

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The most surprising thing I saw in there was that he broke no laws; come on guys, we're more creative than that. Surely we can come up with something to charge him with?

The OWS people are idiots for not replacing all their signs with this story yesterday and focusing everything on a call for his head. This is what people mean when they complain about their lack of organization.

Agreed, but who cares about charging him? All we need is to have the issue raised to the level of, say, Penn State, or Syracuse. The Treasury Secretary suborns, if not encourages, insider trading, and the story goes nowhere. A couple geriatric coaches might lose their jobs because assistants have molested children and... holy motherfucking shit! Front. Page. News.

It's easy to say, "The masses have always been obsessed with the circuses." True. But I think it goes beyond that. I think the masses are now engaged not in diversion, but in outright reshaping of their narratives of what's actually going on around them. They know the deck's stacked by interests with which they will never compete, they know we've turned into a crony capitalist joke, and they know that none of the parties, or institutions, in which they're asked to place their faith are credible. So they've decided, "Fuck it. If I don't read the bad news, or the stories of corruption, it will somehow disappear. Or at least I won't have to consider the ugliness of what's at hand. I don't want to read about Hank Paulson engaged in defrauding me because I want to believe things will get better and that decency will win out. I want to hold on to the belief in the dream, and that good will prevail. So I'm not reading any more of the math, or the investigative journalism. I'm going to hold on to hope. Believe this will pass."

This thinking concerns me, and it should concern you, because when these types of thinkers - and they are the majority of lower-to-middle-class-Americans - are finally forced to react, they will flip out. The pendulum will shift so radically in favor of redistribution, we'll all be in horrible tax brackets for the rest of our lives.

We need to start focusing on the individual miscreants involved in acts like Paulson's. Change the narrative from masses v. elites to one of "a few thousand bad apples." Because when the angry decide to lash out, the politicians will placate them with tax policy. And when they do, they'll find there aren't enough rich people to tax to give the angry 75% what they feel they deserve. So they'll look a few rungs down the ladder. To the doctors, the lawyers, the small businessmen with upper middle class income, etc.

And it won't be a mere few thousand a year. Pendulums shift radically.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

Perhaps they were too busy getting arrested for peaceful protest in a public park (LA edition).

I have nothing against peaceful arrests of peaceful protestors who are breaking the law - when I've done civil disobedience it's what I expected to happen.

As long as they weren't pepper spraying them, arresting press and legal observers who weren't breaking the law, and doing other bad stuff.

But if the method gets in the way of the message, they are doing somethign wrong.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I have nothing against peaceful arrests of peaceful protestors who are breaking the law - when I've done civil disobedience it's what I expected to happen.

As long as they weren't pepper spraying them, arresting press and legal observers who weren't breaking the law, and doing other bad stuff.

But if the method gets in the way of the message, they are doing somethign wrong.

I mostly agree, and have no outrage over what happened in LA, based on what I've heard so far.

But I'm still not sure what purpose is served by arresting them, even peacefully, nor am I sure that hanging out in a public park in front of city hall for a political protest should ever count as breaking the law. Can you think of any purer definition of protected political speech in a public forum?

eta: I'm a little amazed that he LAPD was able to act without resort to violence though. Maybe all the protesters were white?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

I mostly agree, and have no outrage over what happened in LA, based on what I've heard so far.

But I'm still not sure what purpose is served by arresting them, even peacefully, nor am I sure that hanging out in a public park in front of city hall for a political protest should ever count as breaking the law. Can you think of any purer definition of protected political speech in a public forum?

eta: I'm a little amazed that he LAPD was able to act without resort to violence though. Maybe all the protesters were white?

I'm quite happy Menino seems fine with just letting them hang out and be a tourist attraction. I don't know what anyone is eager to arrest them.

I also don't know if they just arrested everyone or actually looked for things they did that broke the law (e.g., starting a fire would pretty clearly break the law in the Boston encampment). I'm betting NYCLU gets most of the arrests there thrown out, and what does that say about the City?

If nothing else, OWS seems to have given the LAPD some real training. They should get paid for that.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I'm quite happy Menino seems fine with just letting them hang out and be a tourist attraction. I don't know what anyone is eager to arrest them.

I also don't know if they just arrested everyone or actually looked for things they did that broke the law (e.g., starting a fire would pretty clearly break the law in the Boston encampment). I'm betting NYCLU gets most of the arrests there thrown out, and what does that say about the City?

If nothing else, OWS seems to have given the LAPD some real training. They should get paid for that.

Minneapolis is really dwindling, at least as to the main protest in the government plaza. Maybe there are 10 or 15 people left at a time.

Although some of them have moved to occupying houses that are facing foreclosure. As that's not outside my office window, I have not followed it as closely.

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Adder

Minneapolis is really dwindling, at least as to the main protest in the government plaza. Maybe there are 10 or 15 people left at a time.

Although some of them have moved to occupying houses that are facing foreclosure. As that's not outside my office window, I have not followed it as closely.

The City has been very patient. They had a deadline for them to vacate about a week ago, so that the park could be cleaned and the protestors ignored it. The mayor even offered them free office space (unfucking believable).

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

The City has been very patient. They had a deadline for them to vacate about a week ago, so that the park could be cleaned and the protestors ignored it. The mayor even offered them free office space (unfucking believable).

I guess I don't have a problem with temporarily closing public forums so they can be cleaned. The mayor told them they could come back the next day then?

Also, what good is office space for protesting?

I guess I fundamentally bristle at "he ordered them to and they ignored it" as a grounds for arrest, even accepting that the order was legal and justly motivated.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

I guess I don't have a problem with temporarily closing public forums so they can be cleaned. The mayor told them they could come back the next day then?

Also, what good is office space for protesting?

I guess I fundamentally bristle at "he ordered them to and they ignored it" as a grounds for arrest, even accepting that the order was legal and justly motivated.

I don't get assembling at Dodger Stadium to move into City Hall. Aren't they miles away fro meach other? Plus, who cares about city hall? does anyone work downtown anyway?

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Adder

I guess I don't have a problem with temporarily closing public forums so they can be cleaned. The mayor told them they could come back the next day then?

Also, what good is office space for protesting?

I guess I fundamentally bristle at "he ordered them to and they ignored it" as a grounds for arrest, even accepting that the order was legal and justly motivated.

So you are essentially for anarchy? There were public health concerns that the mayor believed needed to be addressed. This seems rationale to me. Those camps, from what I have read, have become disgustingly unsanitary over the last few months.

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't get assembling at Dodger Stadium to move into City Hall. Aren't they miles away fro meach other? Plus, who cares about city hall? does anyone work downtown anyway?

The police assembled 1200 officers pre-raid at Dodger Stadium (which is a few miles away), I assume for planning/organizational purposes. Yes, people work downtown - it's actually had a pretty successful revival since the Staples Center went up.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

So you are essentially for anarchy? There were public health concerns that the mayor believed needed to be addressed. This seems rationale to me. Those camps, from what I have read, have become disgustingly unsanitary over the last few months.

There are more than 13,000 homeless children in LA. Would that their health concerns aroused the same sense of urgency as the health concerns of political protesters.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

So you are essentially for anarchy?

Uh, no. But I don't think a peaceful protest in a park is exactly the first step in that direction.

There were public health concerns that the mayor believed needed to be addressed. This seems rationale to me.

Really? Were they endangering anyone but themselves? If not, doesn't that sounds like a pretty convenient pretext to you?

But again, if they weren't a pretext, why wouldn't the city tell them they can come back after things are cleaned up?

All of these raids seem pretty blatantly meant to get the protester to go away, and again, I'm not terribly comfortable with arresting people only for that reason.