Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

We all have money stresses - wouldn't you rather be worried about your bills while driving home, listening to the Angry Grrl channel on Sirius sitting on a seat made of fine Corinthian leather, in your leased Benz (as opposed to the Clear Channel commercial-filled AOR FM radio station while stuck in traffic with no A/C in a paid off Dodge Dart from the Bush I administration)?

Yeah. Me too.

No. Absent a dramatic change in circumstance, I'll take the paid-off beater. Mo' money, mo' problems. But that's just me. I'm not speculating on what someone else who is actually, really poor would do, but the ones I know would rather have something that they know is theirs, that they don't have to worry about losing.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Oh, I agree that the working class is becoming the working poor. Marketplace, IIRC, did a great series on this phenomenon. But the gradual disappearance of the working class/lower middle class isn't what I was talking about.

My point was that Sebby is nuts to say that Joe Six-Pack's view of the Typical Lawyer of the Fashion Tips Board as "rich" is wrong, and to (based upon my own working class relatives in the Ancestral Homeland), assure him that (a) they're as overextended as we all are, only our houses, cars, and booze/food is much nicer; and (2) my cousin Mark (whose bungalow and 2004 Jeep Liberty are both paid off) would be delighted to trade it for an underwater McMansion and a leased E-Class if he had the income to (barely) service said expenses.

We all have money stresses - wouldn't you rather be worried about your bills while driving home, listening to the Angry Grrl channel on Sirius sitting on a seat made of fine Corinthian leather, in your leased Benz (as opposed to the Clear Channel commercial-filled AOR FM radio station while stuck in traffic with no A/C in a paid off Dodge Dart from the Bush I administration)?

Yeah. Me too.

Not Bob, I have not had you made out for a Benz driver. Take the American-made car over the prick-mobile any day.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

An awful lot of working class people are making about $10-$12 an hour right now, as 1099 contractors and their hours kept well below the threshold for getting them in ERISA trouble. $420 a week doesn't buy much. Joe's kids might still be able to play little league through the park district or Boys and Girls Clubs of America (an incredible organization if anyone needs a last-minute charitable contribution deduction).

I am continually amazed that more working class folks don't get pretty angry at the ongoing impoverization of the working class. That union-buster Reagan must be proud.

Second the boys and girls clubs. My wife has always been a fan, so our kids did a lot of swim classes and swim teams there particularly, and it was a great place for kids to mix and especially to get our kids away from the assaholic atmosphere of our suburb.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Oh, I agree that the working class is becoming the working poor. Marketplace, IIRC, did a great series on this phenomenon. But the gradual disappearance of the working class/lower middle class isn't what I was talking about.

My point was that Sebby is nuts to say that Joe Six-Pack's view of the Typical Lawyer of the Fashion Tips Board as "rich" is wrong, and to (based upon my own working class relatives in the Ancestral Homeland), assure him that (a) they're as overextended as we all are, only our houses, cars, and booze/food is much nicer; and (2) my cousin Mark (whose bungalow and 2004 Jeep Liberty are both paid off) would be delighted to trade it for an underwater McMansion and a leased E-Class if he had the income to (barely) service said expenses.

We all have money stresses - wouldn't you rather be worried about your bills while driving home, listening to the Angry Grrl channel on Sirius sitting on a seat made of fine Corinthian leather, in your leased Benz (as opposed to the Clear Channel commercial-filled AOR FM radio station while stuck in traffic with no A/C in a paid off Dodge Dart from the Bush I administration)?

Yeah. Me too.

Quoting William Wallace (or Rage Against the Machine), it's all about the "freedom."

A fine Corinthian lined cage where you could have saved and become independent is still a cage. And one of your own making, which makes the effort expended in paying for it all the more pointless.

I like nice stuff. But as I age, I'm beginning to think freedom, and simplicity of existence, are the only true luxuries in life.

Your cousin might be the winner at the table who just doesn't know it... Probably because he's being bombarded with bullshit advertising and the idiot narratives of strivers around him telling him otherwise.

(Then again, if one should so choose, with money or w/o, he can always walk away. He can tell his boss to fuck himself and go tend bar in the Caribbean, or become a ski instructor out west. It can be done. You just have to see through the bullshit around us telling us we must stay on the merry-go-round of working>consuming>working more>consuming more.)

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

They've actually done studies on this. As people get lots of money, by whatever means, a large percentage start believing they are better than everyone else, and that's why they have the money. This breeds a survival of the fittest attitude they use as cover to assuage guilt at not helping others, or as justification for screwing others.

I know you've seen this shit in finance people a lot. Nothing pisses off rich entitled greedheads more than being told part of why they're where they are is luck. Fucks up their whole life narrative. Thankfully, this only applies to about half of rich people.



The poor have empathy the rich either lost or never had the need to develop. The rich are also addicted to comfort. They aren't standing for anybody unless you make them.

It's not happenstance the rich are often less religious and less community oriented. They don't need those social or spiritual currencies anymore. They can buy what they need, and if you've got money, you don't need the comfort of hoping there's a better afterlife somewhere. Shit's good now. Much as I'm an agnostic leaning atheist and largely libertarian sort, I have to admit - this creates callous people.



I think the appropriate course is to use every means at your disposal to give your kid advantages. But draw the line at supporting policies that actively screw other kids out of them. It's okay to play a good hand for all its worth. It's not okay to actively work to rig up the game to shut out all the players with less means.

It's how to do that, and where to draw that line, where shit gets tricky.

this could be post of the year. Well put.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Not Bob, I have not had you made out for a Benz driver. Take the American-made car over the prick-mobile any day.

Actually, given the financing on them is crazy low for some reason, used Benzes can be had at terms cheaper than a lot of good Japanese cars. (But not the big S Class fuckers that douchey, over leveraged lawyers fancy.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

this could be post of the year. Well put.

Thank you. That's supremely flattering (and I'll happily accept flattery).

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Not Bob, I have not had you made out for a Benz driver. Take the American-made car over the prick-mobile any day.

All the Benz SUVs and the new C Class are built in Sweet Home Alabama.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

this could be post of the year. Well put.

Actually no. If you have means in this economy you can do all you can do for your kids, but "supporting policies" is meaningless. What does that mean, I don't attaboy on FB? Those with means should take steps to pull up someone, someones actually. If you can.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

All the Benz SUVs and the new C Class are built in Sweet Home Alabama.

Hadn't known that. Union shop?

Still, Benz drivers tend to fall just below the Beemer drivers in terms of obnoxiousness on the road. Someday, I'm just going to drive over one of those Beemers and squish 'em like a bug.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Actually, given the financing on them is crazy low for some reason, used Benzes can be had at terms cheaper than a lot of good Japanese cars. (But not the big S Class fuckers that douchey, over leveraged lawyers fancy.)

See, this is very useful. The suggestion that it's actually a subclass of Benz's and not all of them that attract the road-douches is interesting. I'm going to have to see if this is borne out in practice.

Thank you.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

See, this is very useful. The suggestion that it's actually a subclass of Benz's and not all of them that attract the road-douches is interesting. I'm going to have to see if this is borne out in practice.

Thank you.

It tends more to have baby investment bankers to just streeettcccchhh that check a little bit farther. If you wanna be the part, you gotta play the part.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Quoting William Wallace (or Rage Against the Machine), it's all about the "freedom."

A fine Corinthian lined cage where you could have saved and become independent is still a cage. And one of your own making, which makes the effort expended in paying for it all the more pointless.

I like nice stuff. But as I age, I'm beginning to think freedom, and simplicity of existence, are the only true luxuries in life.

Your cousin might be the winner at the table who just doesn't know it... Probably because he's being bombarded with bullshit advertising and the idiot narratives of strivers around him telling him otherwise.

(Then again, if one should so choose, with money or w/o, he can always walk away. He can tell his boss to fuck himself and go tend bar in the Caribbean, or become a ski instructor out west. It can be done. You just have to see through the bullshit around us telling us we must stay on the merry-go-round of working>consuming>working more>consuming more.)

When we retire from this rat race, you're welcome to join me living in simplicity and without luxuries at my little mountain ashram. I'm looking at a couple mountains on some nice Greek Islands as possible locations. The novices will take care of the cooking and cleaning.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

When we retire from this rat race, you're welcome to join me living in simplicity and without luxuries at my little mountain ashram. I'm looking at a couple mountains on some nice Greek Islands as possible locations. The novices will take care of the cooking and cleaning.

Can we all be naked?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Hadn't known that. Union shop?

IDK. But was the question American made or union made or American Union made?

Still, Benz drivers tend to fall just below the Beemer drivers in terms of obnoxiousness on the road. Someday, I'm just going to drive over one of those Beemers and squish 'em like a bug.

Bimmers are pretty solid cars as are Mercedes. Beemers are motorcycles.