This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

It is quite clearly the opposite view from Thurgreed's, since he believes that a woman placing midfield in a field of men will be inspirational to young female athletes and their supporters and sponsors, and I think it will be demoralizing.

Have you ever played a sport?

Female athletes are programmed to believe they cannot compete with men. One of the many reasons why they believe this is the fact that there are different leagues and sports for boys and girls and men and women. If you don't think that watching a woman compete against and beat 1/3 or 1/2 of the greatest male golfers in the world would be empowering* to female athletes and their supporters, then we have come to the point in the conversation where I have to conclude that you don't know shit about sports.

TM

*And you should watch the interviews of the men who played with Michelle Wie after she consistently beat the hell out of them off the tee.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

she consistently beat the hell out of them off

I knew a girl like this in HS.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Have you ever played a sport?

Female athletes are programmed to believe they cannot compete with men. One of the many reasons why they believe this is the fact that there are different leagues and sports for boys and girls and men and women. If you don't think that watching a woman compete against and beat 1/3 or 1/2 of the greatest male golfers in the world would be empowering* to female athletes and their supporters, then we have come to the point in the conversation where I have to conclude that you don't know shit about sports.

TM

*And you should watch the interviews of the men who played with Michelle Wie after she consistently beat the hell out of them off the tee.

Given that I already preface my very few posts about sports with the disclaimer that I don't follow any of them, this is curiously antagonistic. We both vouch for your greater knowledge of sports, and the last organized league I played in was a shitty city rec softball league at my old firm -- but this seems like we're both just guessing about the psychological effects on 13 year old aspiring female athletes, and I do not concede your greater insight into that.

I suspect that some male-on-female competitions will always smack of gimmickry.

So I'm willing to let each sport decide whether to let women compete in the men's division. I just don't think it's a one-size-fits-all solution, because the impact on the women's division will be more or less dire depending on the nature of the sport. It makes no sense that Olympic shooting is not all open events, but it does make sense to me that biathlon is, and it doesn't seem like a must-be-corrected form of sexism for there to be a difference.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I suspect that some male-on-female competitions will always smack of gimmickry.

Seriously. No one does the reverse wheelbarrow IRL.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Given that I already preface my very few posts about sports with the disclaimer that I don't follow any of them, this is curiously antagonistic. We both vouch for your greater knowledge of sports, and the last organized league I played in was a shitty city rec softball league at my old firm -- but this seems like we're both just guessing about the psychological effects on 13 year old aspiring female athletes, and I do not concede your greater insight into that.

I suspect that some male-on-female competitions will always smack of gimmickry.

So I'm willing to let each sport decide whether to let women compete in the men's division. I just don't think it's a one-size-fits-all solution, because the impact on the women's division will be more or less dire depending on the nature of the sport. It makes no sense that Olympic shooting is not all open events, but it does make sense to me that biathlon is, and it doesn't seem like a must-be-corrected form of sexism for there to be a difference.

This is a tricky area for feminists because it is one where there are very marked differences between men and women, and they can't be argued away as social conditioning. Men, generally, are physicially faster and stronger than women, and segregation makes sense in order to NOT exclude exceptional female athletes from recognition in their sports. There are exceptions, of course, and maybe golf is one of them. (See, Salon's Broadsheet for a further discussion on this.)

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I suspect that some male-on-female competitions will always smack of gimmickry.

You're probably old enough to remember the "Battle of the Sexes" competitions that plagued TV for awhile, shortly after the Billie Jean King/Bobby Riggs match.

Although, I'm guessing you were about 5 then so you may have been busy reading Proust.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Given that I already preface my very few posts about sports with the disclaimer that I don't follow any of them, this is curiously antagonistic. We both vouch for your greater knowledge of sports, and the last organized league I played in was a shitty city rec softball league at my old firm -- but this seems like we're both just guessing about the psychological effects on 13 year old aspiring female athletes, and I do not concede your greater insight into that.

Of course not. And where would we find examples of athletes who weren't allowed to play sports in certain leagues and what it meant to their followers when they were? I guess the question will remain a mystery for all time.

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I suspect that some male-on-female competitions will always smack of gimmickry.

Wise words. Of course, we're not talking about those cases, are we?

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

So I'm willing to let each sport decide whether to let women compete in the men's division. I just don't think it's a one-size-fits-all solution, because the impact on the women's division will be more or less dire depending on the nature of the sport. It makes no sense that Olympic shooting is not all open events, but it does make sense to me that biathlon is, and it doesn't seem like a must-be-corrected form of sexism for there to be a difference.

? I don't know why you think this paragraph fits in with this discussion. We agree that it makes no sense for women to compete in certain sports if they can't. Hell, that seems to be a problem that takes care of itself, doesn't it? But in the sports where they actually can compete*, I don't understand why letting them would not serve as an inspiration.

TM

*And this is the key word in this discussion, no?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

This article about JC Penney arriving in Manhattan is awesome, if pushing two weeks old.

We'll have to let Ty wallow in his fattism as we ponder how this woman could have written something so arch, haughty, and snide:

[evenodds]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

We'll have to let Ty wallow in his fattism as we ponder how this woman could have written something so arch, haughty, and snide:

I ventured to Target yesterday and was similarly appalled.

But at least I have the good sense to acknowledge I am an asshole.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by evenodds

I ventured to Target yesterday and was similarly appalled.

But at least I have the good sense to acknowledge I am an asshole.

Well, you and Ty may share a few derisive snorts at the puffy Middle Americans who inhabits such stores, but beware of this Wilson writer. I stumbled across a Salon article she wrote and it appears that she hates the beautiful as much, if not more, than she hates the fat:

"POV appears to want to be a male Mademoiselle for pink, fat, aspiring golf bastards. It has the same artless, kiss ass to the privileged young adult flavor of a Ron Howard film. For example, it has a one-page article by Tyra Banks on the importance of confidence, and how she got hers. Frankly, I'd rather blow a dead dog than read what a woman who makes an enormous, multimillion-dollar living being photographed in panties has to say about her secrets of personal confidence. Then again, I think all models should be required to wear a little soundproof Plexiglas head-box when not being photographed in their panties, to discourage their offering opinions and bringing mental pain to themselves and others. "

http://www.salon.com/people/col/cint...5/19/povparty/

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

We'll have to let Ty wallow in his fattism as we ponder how this woman could have written something so arch, haughty, and snide:

Is that Andy Dick?

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by evenodds

I ventured to Target yesterday and was similarly appalled.

But at least I have the good sense to acknowledge I am an asshole.

Target has slim-fit or athletic-fit polo shirts that fit me much better than actual Polo shirts.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by evenodds

I ventured to Target yesterday and was similarly appalled.

But at least I have the good sense to acknowledge I am an asshole.

You went to Target on Tax Free Weekend? You are a far braver woman than I.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

You're probably old enough to remember the "Battle of the Sexes" competitions that plagued TV for awhile, shortly after the Billie Jean King/Bobby Riggs match.

I am old enough to remember "Battle of the Network Stars." Now that was solid non-gimmicky entertainment.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Well, you and Ty may share a few derisive snorts at the puffy Middle Americans who inhabits such stores, but beware of this Wilson writer. I stumbled across a Salon article she wrote and it appears that she hates the beautiful as much, if not more, than she hates the fat:

"POV appears to want to be a male Mademoiselle for pink, fat, aspiring golf bastards. It has the same artless, kiss ass to the privileged young adult flavor of a Ron Howard film. For example, it has a one-page article by Tyra Banks on the importance of confidence, and how she got hers. Frankly, I'd rather blow a dead dog than read what a woman who makes an enormous, multimillion-dollar living being photographed in panties has to say about her secrets of personal confidence. Then again, I think all models should be required to wear a little soundproof Plexiglas head-box when not being photographed in their panties, to discourage their offering opinions and bringing mental pain to themselves and others. "

http://www.salon.com/people/col/cint...5/19/povparty/

I'm pretty sure that's Slave's line, only he said it on the PB about lefty actors and actresses.