Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Tyrone Slothrop]

"The real estate / financing industry has brought the same machine-like technical prowess that they used to automate the process of underwriting mortgages to a similar automated foreclosure process. Is it any surprise that the results of this are similarly disastrous?"

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

As far as I can tell, DU exists purely to give extreme Rs something to complain about.

I can think of no two groups more deserving of debate with one another.

DU is pitiable. It's impossible to get angry with them. What's appalling is their existence, and numbers. That so many could be so naive, so earnest in such childlike beliefs, is frightening. It's like Palin rally in reverse.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

"The real estate / financing industry has brought the same machine-like technical prowess that they used to automate the process of underwriting mortgages to a similar automated foreclosure process. Is it any surprise that the results of this are similarly disastrous?"

Is anyone with any knowledge of the real estate finance industry surprised by this? It's much the same thing in commercial finance, but the servicer/agent's rights are much more clearly set out, most of the time.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

"The real estate / financing industry has brought the same machine-like technical prowess that they used to automate the process of underwriting mortgages to a similar automated foreclosure process. Is it any surprise that the results of this are similarly disastrous?"

Maybe there are libertarians who are upset about the way that property rights have been trampled by the banks and courts in these foreclosure proceedings, and if so I'd love to hear about them.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Is anyone with any knowledge of the real estate finance industry surprised by this? It's much the same thing in commercial finance, but the servicer/agent's rights are much more clearly set out, most of the time.

It's another TBTF type of issue. If there was thoughtful paper underwriting going on among residential r/e lenders, we'd have seen a much bigger uptick in consumer spending. The problem is the small banks doing such underwriting don't do many residential mortgages. The conduits for that money are the big banks, and there it's all automated. They can't underwrite the guy who's got bulletproof cash flow, but is stuck with a 680 credit rating because he was a passive partner in a business with his brother in law that tanked, after which his ne'er do well in law defaulted on a couple company credit cards on which he was a co-borrower or guarantor. All they have is some robot at a terminal running quick numbers and saying no to all sorts of decent risks.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I can think of no two groups more deserving of debate with one another.

DU is pitiable. It's impossible to get angry with them. What's appalling is their existence, and numbers. That so many could be so naive, so earnest in such childlike beliefs, is frightening. It's like Palin rally in reverse.

Do you notice any differences between the DU and the Palin-Tea Party-Glenn Beck axis?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Maybe there are libertarians who are upset about the way that property rights have been trampled by the banks and courts in these foreclosure proceedings, and if so I'd love to hear about them.

You won't because no one's being trampled. The scandal involved "robo-signers" verifying foreclosure complaints and providing summary judgment affidavits is being misrepresented by the media. It's really a no-harm, no-foul situation. The arrears defaulters owe are all easily verifiable, the fees are minimal and in the end, no bank ever sues on a deficiency anyway, so even if they were slightly off, it wouldn't matter.*

Additionally, if a debtor thinks he's getting screwed in the listing of fees, interest and arrears, all he has to do is file an answer to the complaint and challenge the numbers. If he gets served with papers from the sheriff and neglects to do so, fuck him (He could do it for free... I've seen handwritten answers in court documents).

*There are circumstances where a flipper may be sued, but its rare. And the 1099 discharge of indebtedness tax liability doesn't apply to people losing their primary residences.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Do you notice any differences between the DU and the Palin-Tea Party-Glenn Beck axis?

No. Delusion's delusion. Its direction is largely immaterial.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Do you notice any differences between the DU and the Palin-Tea Party-Glenn Beck axis?

One side puts more bumper stickers on their cars.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You won't because no one's being trampled. The scandal involved "robo-signers" verifying foreclosure complaints and providing summary judgment affidavits is being misrepresented by the media. It's really a no-harm, no-foul situation. The arrears defaulters owe are all easily verifiable, the fees are minimal and in the end, no bank ever sues on a deficiency anyway, so even if they were slightly off, it wouldn't matter.*

Additionally, if a debtor thinks he's getting screwed in the listing of fees, interest and arrears, all he has to do is file an answer to the complaint and challenge the numbers. If he gets served with papers from the sheriff and neglects to do so, fuck him (He could do it for free... I've seen handwritten answers in court documents).

*There are circumstances where a flipper may be sued, but its rare. And the 1099 discharge of indebtedness tax liability doesn't apply to people losing their primary residences.

2. It just becomes a delay device, as almost all of the "errors" are possible to correct. And, if there is any inclination toward voiding the mortgages, the borrowers are in a bad position on the equities--why should they be entitled to a windfall because the notary acknowledging a mortgage didn't cross out the pre-printed state/county info on the acknowledgement page? And as to the lender bearing the risk, if that's the case, what's the purpose of a notary?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

what's the purpose of a notary?

Good question. The requirement for notarized signatures probably accomplishes zilch except for the false reassurance it gives to low-income folks -- particularly those from civil law countries where notaries play a vastly more important role -- that the transaction has somehow been "approved" by someone somewhere.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

One side puts more bumper stickers on their cars.

Which one?

My favorite recent combination was "Leagalize Freedom" on the same car as "Welcome to America: Now Speak English".

Of course, requisite Don't Tread on Me and Pro-Life stickers, too.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Maybe there are libertarians who are upset about the way that property rights have been trampled by the banks and courts in these foreclosure proceedings, and if so I'd love to hear about them.

Do you normally respond to your own posts? (at least under the same sock that posted it?) Bad form.

Anyhoo, I'm upset, and its just another reason why I feel confident in my position that TARP and any other stimulus money that went directly to the banks/lenders was wrong and misdirected. The money should have gone to shore up homeowner's positions and "create" equity (with appropriate restrictions on resale rights to prevent abusive grabs at the government created equity) rather than to bank/lender's balance sheets. that would have been change I could believe in. [sigh]

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

As far as I can tell, DU exists purely to give extreme Rs something to complain about.

DU exists to counterbalance Free Republic.com on the internets. I think it's a legacy of the Fairness Doctrine.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

One side puts more bumper stickers on their cars.

I think you think its the right, and that provokes me to ask, have you ever been to Seattle? (and I am guessing Berkeley is the similar, although is Berkeley a non-fossil fuel vehicle zone?)